A Word on Manx Spelling - Eachdraidh nam mùthaidhean

Susanharris 19:49, 21 dhen Fhaoilleach 2016

2016-01-21T19:49:26Z

Akerbeltz 00:48, 2 dhen Dàmhair 2013

2013-10-02T00:48:10Z

Susanharris 05:29, 19 dhen Lùnastal 2013

2013-08-19T05:29:11Z

Susanharris 05:25, 19 dhen Lùnastal 2013

2013-08-19T05:25:19Z

Akerbeltz 18:17, 21 dhen Dùbhlachd 2011

2011-12-21T18:17:28Z

Akerbeltz 18:16, 21 dhen Dùbhlachd 2011

2011-12-21T18:16:39Z

Akerbeltz: Created page with "I think a short note on Manx Gaelic is called for. We've had an email or two about this and comments like "why can't we spell like Manx, it's so much easier" are not unheard of ..."

2011-12-21T18:11:18Z

Created page with "I think a short note on Manx Gaelic is called for. We've had an email or two about this and comments like "why can't we spell like Manx, it's so much easier" are not unheard of ..."

Duilleag ùr

I think a short note on Manx Gaelic is called for.

We've had an email or two about this and comments like "why can't we spell like Manx, it's so much easier" are not unheard of in learner's classes so it's time to clarify a myth or two.

Now, Manx spelling was cooked up between a guy called Thomas Wilson who printed the first book in Manx in 1707 and a (presumably) mad priest. Thomas hadn't exactly invented it though, the credit for this probably goes to the Welsh Bishop John Philips who translated (but never published) the book of common prayer around 1610.

Philips translation of the Lord's Prayer starts like this: ''Aér aîn ta anys neau. Kasserick gy rou t'enym'''. And so on. When this was eventually published in 1765, the spelling had changed somewhat: '''Ayr ain, t'ayns niau. Casherick dy row dt'Ennym.''

I know some people argue about Philips having been Welsh, but there is no doubt that the orthography is based to a large extent on English. In a purely Welsh based system there would have been no need to spell [iː] and [uː] as ''ee'' and ''oo'' as Welsh is equipped with clear vowels.

Popular system? Maybe, but it may just have been a case of who got there first and who had the better marketing strategy - remember VHS and Betamax? And it was no doubt aided by the fact that a native speaker of any language can accommodate for a mad writing system simply because he already can speak the language. Bit like English spelling really.

So is Manx spelling really easier than the traditional Gaelic systems? The simple answer is no, definitely not. It simply looks easier because there is a familiarity about it that comforts English speakers when they see it whereas Gaelic and Irish look decidedly alien. But when you actually have to get down to the nitty-gritty of it when you're learning Manx or even just trying to learn how to pronounce it, you very quickly run into a wall. A very solid wall. With iron spikes on it. Glass on top. Something that looks like a Gabon viper wriggling on it. Ok, I think you get the picture.

I shall illustrate this with a few examples:

{| style="width: 80%;" border="0"
! align="left" | Manx Spelling
! align="left" | To an English speakers looks like its
! align="left" | but in Manx actually is
! align="left" | Gaelic Equivalent
|-
| <span style="color: #000080;">uinnag</span> || [winag] || [uɲag] || <span style="color: #008000;">uinneag</span>
|-
|}

winag uinneag
thallooin θaluːin ta'luːɲ talamh
roltage rəʊltɪʤ rol'tɛːg reultag
faasaag faːsaːg fə'zeːg feusag
dy bragh daɪ brax də brɛː gu bràth
shiaght ʃiaxt ʃex seachd
lhiabbee ljæbiː ʎaːbi leabaidh
cabbyl kæbil kʲaːvəl capall
laghyn læxin laːən làithean
caggey kægi kaːɣə cogadh
poosey puːsi puːðə pòsadh
trome trəʊm trobm trom
bane beɪn bɛːdn bàn
huitt hjuːit hoʒ thuit

Enough examples I think. It clearly isn't easy, certainly not any easier than Gaelic spelling - not unless you want to cause hours of amusement. And it certainly isn't as regular as Gaelic spelling which is, as I have stated elsewhere, an extremely powerful and accurate tool for writing Gaelic.

Actually, it's more difficult because it *looks* like English ... so one could easily be misled into thinking that it IS pronounced like English. So you have to be doubly careful not to!

Hopefully we can put this argument to rest now. Whether or not this system is adequate for Manx is up to the Manx people to decide. But it certainly won't do for Gaelic or Irish. And that aside, let us remember that the very idea of learning a language-that-is-not-English is about learning a different way of doing things. If you want everything to be like English, well, then what are you learning a language-that-is-not-English for?

@@ Loidhne 22: / Loidhne 22: @@
 ! align="left" | Scottish Gaelic<br/>Equivalent
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">uinnag</span> || [winag] || [uɲag] || <span style="color: #008000;">uinneag</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">uinnag</span> || [winag] || [uɲag] || <span style="color: #008000;">uinneag</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">thallooin</span> || [θaluːin] || [ta'luːɲ] || <span style="color: #008000;">talamh</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">thallooin</span> || [θaluːin] || [ta'luːɲ] || <span style="color: #008000;">talamh</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">roltage</span> || [rəʊltɪʤ] || [rol'tɛːg] || <span style="color: #008000;">reultag</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">roltage</span> || [rəʊltɪʤ] || [rol'tɛːg] || <span style="color: #008000;">reultag</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">faasaag</span> || [faːsaːg] || [fə'zeːg] || <span style="color: #008000;">feusag</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">faasaag</span> || [faːsaːg] || [fə'zeːg] || <span style="color: #008000;">feusag</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">dy bragh</span> || [daɪ brax] || [də brɛː] || <span style="color: #008000;">gu bràth</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">dy bragh</span> || [daɪ brax] || [də brɛː] || <span style="color: #008000;">gu bràth</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">shiaght</span> || [ʃiaxt] || [ʃex] || <span style="color: #008000;">seachd</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">shiaght</span> || [ʃiaxt] || [ʃex] || <span style="color: #008000;">seachd</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">lhiabbee</span> || [ljæbiː] || [ʎaːbi] || <span style="color: #008000;">leabaidh</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">lhiabbee</span> || [ljæbiː] || [ʎaːbi] || <span style="color: #008000;">leabaidh</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">cabbyl</span> || [kæbil] || [kʲaːvəl] || <span style="color: #008000;">capall</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">cabbyl</span> || [kæbil] || [kʲaːvəl] || <span style="color: #008000;">capall</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">laghyn</span> || [læxin] || [laːən] || <span style="color: #008000;">làithean</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">laghyn</span> || [læxin] || [laːən] || <span style="color: #008000;">làithean</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">caggey</span> || [kægi] || [kaːɣə] || <span style="color: #008000;">cogadh</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">caggey</span> || [kægi] || [kaːɣə] || <span style="color: #008000;">cogadh</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">poosey</span> || [puːsi] || [puːðə] || <span style="color: #008000;">pòsadh</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">poosey</span> || [puːsi] || [puːðə] || <span style="color: #008000;">pòsadh</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">trome</span> || [trəʊm] || [tro<sup>b</sup>m] || <span style="color: #008000;">trom</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">trome</span> || [trəʊm] || [tro<sup>b</sup>m] || <span style="color: #008000;">trom</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">bane</span> || [beɪn] || [bɛː<sup>d</sup>n] || <span style="color: #008000;">bàn</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">bane</span> || [beɪn] || [bɛː<sup>d</sup>n] || <span style="color: #008000;">bàn</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">huitt</span> || [hjuːit] || [hoʒ] || <span style="color: #008000;">thuit</span>
+| <span style="color: #6600CC;">huitt</span> || [hjuːit] || [hoʒ] || <span style="color: #008000;">thuit</span>
 |-
 |}

@@ Loidhne 16: / Loidhne 16: @@
 {| style="width: 70%;" border="0"
-! align="left" | Manx Spelling
+{| class="wikitable"
-! align="left" | To an English speakers looks like its
+! align="left" | Manx<br/>Spelling
-! align="left" | but in Manx actually is
+! align="left" | To an English speaker,<br/>this looks like its
-! align="left" | Gaelic Equivalent
+! align="left" | but in Manx<br/>it actually is
 |-
 | <span style="color: #000080;">uinnag</span> || [winag] || [uɲag] || <span style="color: #008000;">uinneag</span>

@@ Loidhne 51: / Loidhne 51: @@
 |}
-Enough examples I think. Clearly, it's not easy, certainly not any easier than Gaelic spelling, although it an provide hours of amusement.  It certainly isn't as regular as Gaelic spelling which, as I've stated elsewhere, is an extremely powerful and accurate tool for writing Gaelic.
+Enough examples I think. Clearly, it's not easy, certainly not any easier than Gaelic spelling, although it can provide hours of amusement.  It certainly isn't as regular as Gaelic spelling which, as I've stated elsewhere, is an extremely powerful and accurate tool for writing Gaelic.
 Actually, Manx orthography is more difficult because it *looks* like English; so, one could easily be misled into thinking that it IS pronounced like English.  So you have to be doubly careful not to!

@@ Loidhne 1: / Loidhne 1: @@
 I think a short note on Manx Gaelic is called for.
-We've had an email or two about this and comments like "why can't we spell like Manx, it's so much easier" are not unheard of in learner's classes so it's time to clarify a myth or two.
+We've had an email or two about Manx. Comments like "why can't we spell like Manx, it's so much easier" are not unheard of in learner's classes, so it's time to clarify a myth or two.
-Now, Manx spelling was cooked up between a guy called Thomas Wilson who printed the first book in Manx in 1707 and a (presumably) mad priest. Thomas hadn't exactly invented it though, the credit for this probably goes to the Welsh Bishop John Philips who translated (but never published) the book of common prayer around 1610.
+Now, Manx spelling was cooked up between a guy called Thomas Wilson who printed the first book in Manx in 1707 and a (presumably) mad priest. Thomas hadn't exactly invented it though. The credit for that probably goes to the Welsh Bishop John Philips who translated, but never published, the book of common prayer, around 1610.
-Philips translation of the Lord's Prayer starts like this: ''Aér aîn ta anys neau. Kasserick gy rou t'enym'''. And so on. When this was eventually published in 1765, the spelling had changed somewhat: ''Ayr ain, t'ayns niau. Casherick dy row dt'Ennym.''
+Philips' translation of the Lord's Prayer starts like this: ''Aér aîn ta anys neau. Kasserick gy rou t'enym'''. And so on. When this was eventually published, in 1765, the spelling had changed somewhat: ''Ayr ain, t'ayns niau. Casherick dy row dt'Ennym.''
 I know some people argue about Philips having been Welsh, but there is no doubt that the orthography is based to a large extent on English.  In a purely Welsh based system there would have been no need to spell [iː] and [uː] as ''ee'' and ''oo'' as Welsh is equipped with clear vowels.
@@ Loidhne 11: / Loidhne 11: @@
 Popular system?  Maybe, but it may just have been a case of who got there first and who had the better marketing strategy - remember VHS and Betamax?  And it was no doubt aided by the fact that a native speaker of any language can accommodate for a mad writing system simply because he already can speak the language. Bit like English spelling really.
-So is Manx spelling really easier than the traditional Gaelic systems? The simple answer is no, definitely not. It simply looks easier because there is a familiarity about it that comforts English speakers when they see it whereas Gaelic and Irish look decidedly alien. But when you actually have to get down to the nitty-gritty of it when you're learning Manx or even just trying to learn how to pronounce it, you very quickly run into a wall.  A very solid wall.  With iron spikes on it. Glass on top. Something that looks like a Gabon viper wriggling on it. Ok, I think you get the picture.
+So, is Manx spelling really easier than the traditional Gaelic systems? The simple answer is no, definitely not. It simply looks easier because there's a familiar look to it. That comforts English speakers when they see it whereas Gaelic and Irish look decidedly alien. But, in actuality, when you have to get down to the nitty-gritty of it, when you're learning Manx or even just trying to learn how to pronounce it, you very quickly run into a wall.  A very solid wall.  With iron spikes on it. Glass on top. Something that looks like a Gabon viper wriggling on it. OK, I think you get the picture.
 I shall illustrate this with a few examples:
@@ Loidhne 51: / Loidhne 51: @@
 |}
-Enough examples I think. It clearly isn't easy, certainly not any easier than Gaelic spelling - not unless you want to cause hours of amusement.  And it certainly isn't as regular as Gaelic spelling which is, as I have stated elsewhere, an extremely powerful and accurate tool for writing Gaelic.
+Enough examples I think. Clearly, it's not easy, certainly not any easier than Gaelic spelling, although it an provide hours of amusement.  It certainly isn't as regular as Gaelic spelling which, as I've stated elsewhere, is an extremely powerful and accurate tool for writing Gaelic.
-Actually, it's more difficult because it *looks* like English ... so one could easily be misled into thinking that it IS pronounced like English.  So you have to be doubly careful not to!
+Actually, Manx orthography is more difficult because it *looks* like English; so, one could easily be misled into thinking that it IS pronounced like English.  So you have to be doubly careful not to!
-Hopefully we can put this argument to rest now.  Whether or not this system is adequate for Manx is up to the Manx people to decide.  But it certainly won't do for Gaelic or Irish.  And that aside, let us remember that the very idea of learning a language-that-is-not-English is about learning a different way of doing things.  If you want everything to be like English, well, then what are you learning a language-that-is-not-English for?
+Hopefully, we can now put this argument to rest.  Whether or not this system is adequate for Manx is up to the Manx people to decide.  But it certainly won't do for Gaelic or Irish.  And that aside, let us remember that the very idea of learning a language-that-is-not-English is about learning a different way of doing things.  If you want everything to be like English, well, then what are you learning a language-that-is-not-English for?
 <br />
 <br />
 {{BeaganGramair}}

@@ Loidhne 43: / Loidhne 43: @@
 | <span style="color: #000080;">poosey</span> || [puːsi] || [puːðə] || <span style="color: #008000;">pòsadh</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">trome</span> || [trəʊm] || [trobm] || <span style="color: #008000;">trom</span>
+| <span style="color: #000080;">trome</span> || [trəʊm] || [tro<sup>b</sup>m] || <span style="color: #008000;">trom</span>
 |-
-| <span style="color: #000080;">bane</span> || [beɪn] || [bɛːdn] || <span style="color: #008000;">bàn</span>
+| <span style="color: #000080;">bane</span> || [beɪn] || [bɛː<sup>d</sup>n] || <span style="color: #008000;">bàn</span>
 |-
 | <span style="color: #000080;">huitt</span> || [hjuːit] || [hoʒ] || <span style="color: #008000;">thuit</span>