Vowel Length, Stress Placement and Compound Nouns - Eachdraidh nam mùthaidhean

Akerbeltz: /* Unaccented Syllables and Long Vowels */

2013-11-29T07:10:33Z

Unaccented Syllables and Long Vowels

Akerbeltz: /* Dim Sum? */

2013-11-29T07:10:15Z

Dim Sum?

Susanharris 03:53, 13 dhen Lùnastal 2013

2013-08-13T03:53:36Z

Susanharris 03:48, 13 dhen Lùnastal 2013

2013-08-13T03:48:31Z

Akerbeltz: /* Unaccented Syllables and Long Vowels */

2013-08-12T22:41:25Z

Unaccented Syllables and Long Vowels

Akerbeltz 22:39, 12 dhen Lùnastal 2013

2013-08-12T22:39:44Z

Susanharris 23:32, 11 dhen Lùnastal 2013

2013-08-11T23:32:17Z

Susanharris 06:55, 9 dhen Lùnastal 2013

2013-08-09T06:55:29Z

Susanharris 06:33, 9 dhen Lùnastal 2013

2013-08-09T06:33:29Z

Susanharris 06:06, 9 dhen Lùnastal 2013

2013-08-09T06:06:36Z

@@ Loidhne 51: / Loidhne 51: @@
 Most Gaelic textbooks will go as far as telling you that Gaelic is very neat and always has word stress on the first syllable. And perhaps they may even add that a hyphen indicates that the stress has shifted to the second element.  But that's generally as far as they go and assume "you'll just pick up the rest by ear".  Sorry, you won't.
-First, to sum up the basics. Indeed, Gaelic has primary stress on the first syllable of a word when there is no space, hyphen, or anything like that in the word. Here are some prototypical words: <span style="color: #008000;">taigh, cù, màthair, bàta, craobhan, cupannan, iarraidh, agam, leabhraichean</span> and so on.  Now, think hard. Have you ever seen a Gaelic word (that wasn't a loanword, in case you were going to say <span style="color: #008000;">tombaca</span> or <span style="color: #008000;">buntàta</span>)with a long vowel anywhere but the first syllable?  Don't spend too long looking for one, you won't find one.  That's because Gaelic phonologocal rules reveal that a native or nativised word may not have a long vowel in an unaccented syllable.  This is important.
+First, to sum up the basics. Indeed, Gaelic has primary stress on the first syllable of a word when there is no space, hyphen, or anything like that in the word. Here are some prototypical words: <span style="color: #008000;">taigh, cù, màthair, bàta, craobhan, cupannan, iarraidh, agam, leabhraichean</span> and so on.  Now, think hard. Have you ever seen a Gaelic word (that wasn't a loanword, in case you were going to say <span style="color: #008000;">tombaca</span> or <span style="color: #008000;">buntàta</span>) with a long vowel anywhere but the first syllable?  Don't spend too long looking for one, you won't find one.  That's because Gaelic phonologocal rules reveal that a native or nativised word may not have a long vowel in an unaccented syllable.  This is important.
 Second, there is a small, easily identifiable group of adverbs that have forward stress, indicated either by a hyphen or a capital letter in the middle of the word: <span style="color: #008000;">a-màireach, an-dé, an-uiridh, an-asgaidh, an-còmhnaidh, DiLuain, DiMàirt</span> (and that's why they have the capital letter and that's also why GOC stinks), and so on.  So far, life is pretty straightforward.

@@ Loidhne 44: / Loidhne 44: @@
 |}
-Wonderful, isn't it? Cantonese words can't be any longer than three sounds, so any long foreign words have to be broken up. Consonant clusters are not allowed and neither are words ending in anything but vowels, n, m or p, t, k. So, so lift becomes <span style="color: #6600CC;">*lif</span> and then <span style="color: #6600CC;">līp</span> because -p is the closest thing Cantonese has to a final -f.  On the other hand, English just flounders with the tones. Completely. What's a clear vowel? And why doesn't Cantonese have any voiced stops??? ... But I digress.
+Wonderful, isn't it? Cantonese words can't be any longer than three sounds, so any long foreign words have to be broken up. Consonant clusters are not allowed and neither are words ending in anything but vowels, n, m or p, t, k. So lift becomes <span style="color: #6600CC;">*lif</span> and then <span style="color: #6600CC;">līp</span> because -p is the closest thing Cantonese has to a final -f.  On the other hand, English just flounders with the tones. Completely. What's a clear vowel? And why doesn't Cantonese have any voiced stops??? ... But I digress.
 And no, this isn't a diatribe against loanwords either. All languages borrow, unless they're in complete isolation, a privilege few enjoy.  But to get back to the actual question.

@@ Loidhne 58: / Loidhne 58: @@
 ==True Compounds==
-These are words, or prefixes plus words which have merged together in such a way that they are regarded as one single word.  Their main characteristics are:
+These are words, which are prefixes plus words, that have merged together in such a way that they are regarded as one single word.  Their main characteristics are:
 #Stress on the first syllable

@@ Loidhne 51: / Loidhne 51: @@
 Most Gaelic textbooks will go as far as telling you that Gaelic is very neat and always has word stress on the first syllable. And perhaps they may even add that a hyphen indicates that the stress has shifted to the second element.  But that's generally as far as they go and assume "you'll just pick up the rest by ear".  Sorry, you won't.
-First, to sum up the basics. Indeed, Gaelic has primary stress on the first syllable of a word (the type where there is no space, hyphens or anything like that in the word). Here are some prototypical words: <span style="color: #008000;">taigh, cù, màthair, bàta, craobhan, cupannan, iarraidh, agam, leabhraichean</span> and so on.  Now, think hard. Have you ever seen a Gaelic word (that wasn't a loanword, in case you were going to say <span style="color: #008000;">tombaca</span> or <span style="color: #008000;">buntàta</span>)with a long vowel anywhere but the first syllable?  Don't spend too long looking for one, you won't find one.  That's because Gaelic phonologocal rules reveal that a native or nativised word may not have a long vowel in an unaccented syllable.  This is important.
+First, to sum up the basics. Indeed, Gaelic has primary stress on the first syllable of a word when there is no space, hyphen, or anything like that in the word. Here are some prototypical words: <span style="color: #008000;">taigh, cù, màthair, bàta, craobhan, cupannan, iarraidh, agam, leabhraichean</span> and so on.  Now, think hard. Have you ever seen a Gaelic word (that wasn't a loanword, in case you were going to say <span style="color: #008000;">tombaca</span> or <span style="color: #008000;">buntàta</span>)with a long vowel anywhere but the first syllable?  Don't spend too long looking for one, you won't find one.  That's because Gaelic phonologocal rules reveal that a native or nativised word may not have a long vowel in an unaccented syllable.  This is important.
 Second, there is a small, easily identifiable group of adverbs that have forward stress, indicated either by a hyphen or a capital letter in the middle of the word: <span style="color: #008000;">a-màireach, an-dé, an-uiridh, an-asgaidh, an-còmhnaidh, DiLuain, DiMàirt</span> (and that's why they have the capital letter and that's also why GOC stinks), and so on.  So far, life is pretty straightforward.

@@ Loidhne 51: / Loidhne 51: @@
 Most Gaelic textbooks will go as far as telling you that Gaelic is very neat and always has word stress on the first syllable. And perhaps they may even add that a hyphen indicates that the stress has shifted to the second element.  But that's generally as far as they go and assume "you'll just pick up the rest by ear".  Sorry, you won't.
-First, to sum up the basics. Indeed, Gaelic has primary stress on the first syllable of a word (no spaces in between). Here are some prototypical words: <span style="color: #008000;">taigh, cù, màthair, bàta, craobhan, cupannan, iarraidh, agam, leabhraichean</span> and so on.  Now, think hard. Have you ever seen a Gaelic word (that wasn't a loanword, in case you were going to say <span style="color: #008000;">tombaca</span> or <span style="color: #008000;">buntàta</span>)with a long vowel anywhere but the first syllable?  Don't spend too long looking for one, you won't find one.  That's because Gaelic phonologocal rules reveal that a native or nativised word may not have a long vowel in an unaccented syllable.  This is important.
+First, to sum up the basics. Indeed, Gaelic has primary stress on the first syllable of a word (the type where there is no space, hyphens or anything like that in the word). Here are some prototypical words: <span style="color: #008000;">taigh, cù, màthair, bàta, craobhan, cupannan, iarraidh, agam, leabhraichean</span> and so on.  Now, think hard. Have you ever seen a Gaelic word (that wasn't a loanword, in case you were going to say <span style="color: #008000;">tombaca</span> or <span style="color: #008000;">buntàta</span>)with a long vowel anywhere but the first syllable?  Don't spend too long looking for one, you won't find one.  That's because Gaelic phonologocal rules reveal that a native or nativised word may not have a long vowel in an unaccented syllable.  This is important.
 Second, there is a small, easily identifiable group of adverbs that have forward stress, indicated either by a hyphen or a capital letter in the middle of the word: <span style="color: #008000;">a-màireach, an-dé, an-uiridh, an-asgaidh, an-còmhnaidh, DiLuain, DiMàirt</span> (and that's why they have the capital letter and that's also why GOC stinks), and so on.  So far, life is pretty straightforward.

← Mùthadh nas sine		Mùthadh on 22:39, 12 dhen Lùnastal 2013
Loidhne 1:		Loidhne 1:
	Most of us have come across this problem in various shapes and guises. Not so much vowel length and stress placement which learners, and indeed native spearkers, often consider to be somewhat "esoteric" issues. But, questions often arise regarding whether or not to use a hyphen or whether lenition affects the second word of a hyphenated word. Case? We can't promise to reveal all, but we'll have a go at giving a few good pointers. To begin with, I'm afraid that we have to consider the two "esoteric" issues because they're crucial for understanding and applying the third and fourth issues.		Most of us have come across this problem in various shapes and guises. Not so much vowel length and stress placement which learners, and indeed native spearkers, often consider to be somewhat "esoteric" issues. But, questions often arise regarding whether or not to use a hyphen or whether lenition affects the second word of a hyphenated word. Case? We can't promise to reveal all, but we'll have a go at giving a few good pointers. To begin with, I'm afraid that we have to consider the two "esoteric" issues because they're crucial for understanding and applying the third and fourth issues.

		+	==Dim Sum?==
	Before you groan and click somewhere else, consider that every language has sound rules. Phonology is the study of sound rules. Many phonological rules are specific to the respective language. These rules are just as much part of a language, and important to it, as a case system, tenses, or the words themselves. Bugger them up and you mess with the language, big time. So, even though it may be more elusive than the genitive case, phonological rules are very important.		Before you groan and click somewhere else, consider that every language has sound rules. Phonology is the study of sound rules. Many phonological rules are specific to the respective language. These rules are just as much part of a language, and important to it, as a case system, tenses, or the words themselves. Bugger them up and you mess with the language, big time. So, even though it may be more elusive than the genitive case, phonological rules are very important.

@@ Loidhne 87: / Loidhne 87: @@
 ==Loose Compounds==
-It's a moot point whether you want to call them compounds or not. They are in the way that lenition occurs and the meaning of the second element is modified, but no stress shift occurs. Because these rules are a bit tricky to understand, people often hyphenate these words which would indicate stress shift, thus giving them the appearance of Compounds from groups 1-3.  This group seems to contain most of the prefixed words in Gaelic, that is words which have bits like <span style="color: #008000;">ath-, do-, eu-, droch-</span>, and so on, preceding them.  This is also another reason why these are often hyphenated, as there are a number of prominent ones which have become quasi-compounds, such as <span style="color: #008000;">do-dhèanta</span>. Characteristics are:
+It's a moot point whether you want to call them compounds or not. They are compounds in the way that lenition occurs and the meaning of the second element is modified, but no stress shift occurs. Because these rules are a bit tricky to understand, people often hyphenate these words which would indicate stress shift, thus giving them the appearance of Compounds from groups 1-3.  This group seems to contain most of the prefixed words in Gaelic, that is words which have bits like <span style="color: #008000;">ath-, do-, eu-, droch-</span>, and so on, preceding them.  This is also another reason why these are often hyphenated, as there are a number of prominent ones which have become quasi-compounds, such as <span style="color: #008000;">do-dhèanta</span>. Characteristics are:
 #No stress shift occurs, for example <span style="color: #008000;">sàr-mhath</span> [saːr va]

@@ Loidhne 77: / Loidhne 77: @@
 ==Quasi Compounds==
-These are very much like Close Compounds, only that stress falls on the second element and the first element is reduced, so you could regard them as a subclass of close compounds:
+These are very much like Close Compounds, only their stress falls on the second element and the first element is reduced; so, you could regard them as a subclass of close compounds:
 #Primary stress on the second syllable with secondary stress on the first element
-#Short vowels of the first element are reduced slightly without obscuring their quality eg <span style="color: #008000;">tìr</span> [tʲiːrʲ] + <span style="color: #008000;">mór</span> [moːr] » <span style="color: #008000;">tìr-mór</span> [ˌtʲirʲˈmoːr]
+#Short vowels of the first element are reduced slightly without obscuring their quality - for example, <span style="color: #008000;">tìr</span> [tʲiːrʲ] + <span style="color: #008000;">mór</span> [moːr] » <span style="color: #008000;">tìr-mór</span> [ˌtʲirʲˈmoːr]
 #Formerly long vowels of the first element are reduced to half-long or shorter vowels
 #Compulsory lenition of the second element except in compounds of a Noun-Adjective nature
@@ Loidhne 87: / Loidhne 87: @@
 ==Loose Compounds==
-It's a moot point whether you want to call them compounds or not.  They are in the way that lenition occurs and the meaning of the second element is modified, but no stress shift occurs. Because these rules are a bit tricky to understand, people have often started hyphenating these words, which would indicate stress shift, giving them the appearance of Compounds from groups 1-3.  This group seems to contain most of the prefixed words in Gaelic ie words which have bits like <span style="color: #008000;">ath-, do-, eu-, droch-</span> etc preceding them.  This is also another reason why these are often hyphenated, as there are a number of prominent one's which have become quasi-compounds (such as <span style="color: #008000;">do-dhèanta</span> for example). Characteristics are:
+It's a moot point whether you want to call them compounds or not. They are in the way that lenition occurs and the meaning of the second element is modified, but no stress shift occurs. Because these rules are a bit tricky to understand, people often hyphenate these words which would indicate stress shift, thus giving them the appearance of Compounds from groups 1-3.  This group seems to contain most of the prefixed words in Gaelic, that is words which have bits like <span style="color: #008000;">ath-, do-, eu-, droch-</span>, and so on, preceding them.  This is also another reason why these are often hyphenated, as there are a number of prominent ones which have become quasi-compounds, such as <span style="color: #008000;">do-dhèanta</span>. Characteristics are:
 #No stress shift occurs, for example <span style="color: #008000;">sàr-mhath</span> [saːr va]
@@ Loidhne 96: / Loidhne 96: @@
 ==So what?==
-Before we launch into more examples, what does this mean? It means that we have to be careful about when to use hyphens and not only because incorrect use of them tells the reader the stress is somewhere where it isn't, but there is also a question of meaning involved.  Consider the following English examples for a moment:
+Before we launch into more examples, why is this important? Because it explains why we have to be careful about when to use hyphens. Care is needed not only because incorrect use of them tells a reader that stress is somewhere that it isn't but there is also a question of meaning involved.  Consider the following English examples for a moment:
 {| style="width: 20%;" border="0" align="center"
 |-
@@ Loidhne 111: / Loidhne 111: @@
 |}
-Same words, but spelt differently - you tell me whether a green fly and a greenfly are the same things? And while a dungbeetle may not be pleasant, it's better than a dung beetle or a knife made of fish. English has the added problem of sometimes using stress within a word to differentiate meanings, think of pairs like permit and permit, construct and construct and so on.
+Same words, but spelt differently - you tell me whether a green fly and a greenfly are the same things? And while a dungbeetle may not be pleasant, it's better than a dung beetle, and a fishknife better than a knife made of fish. English has the added problem of sometimes using stress within a word to differentiate meanings, seen with pairs like permit and permit, construct and construct, and so on.
-Gaelic, in fact most languages, does something similar.  The most obvious example I have come across so far is the difference in meaning between <span style="color: #008000;">Tha mi a' fuireach ann an taigh beag</span> and <span style="color: #008000;">Tha mi a' fuireach ann an taigh-beag</span>. I'd rather not live in the second. Now in writing you can afford not to pay attention to stress placement and simply learn that the word for toilet has a hyphen in Gaelic. But when it comes to speaking, you have to know where to place the stress unless you want to make people quietly move away from you when you tell them about your new "home" at the next party you go to.
+Gaelic, in fact most languages, does something similar.  Sp far, the most obvious example I have come across is the difference in meaning between <span style="color: #008000;">Tha mi a' fuireach ann an taigh beag</span> and <span style="color: #008000;">Tha mi a' fuireach ann an taigh-beag</span>. I'd rather not live in the second. In writing Gaelic, you can afford not to pay attention to stress placement and simply learn that the word for toilet has a hyphen. However, when it comes to speaking, you have to know where to place the stress unless you want to make people quietly move away from you when you tell them about your new "home", at the next party you go to.
-Sooo ... in order to learn when to make hyphens, you really have to pay attention to the way a word is pronounced in the first place and then deduce the spelling from that, not the other way round.
+Sooo ... in order to learn when to place hyphens, you really have to pay attention, first, to the way a word is pronounced and then deduce the spelling from that, not the other way round.
-There are a few tricks for the learner (native speakers here have a clear advantage) that can help you however.
+Native speakers have a clear advantage; however, there are a few tricks for the learner that can hep.
-If you spell a word together in English or if there is stress shift in the English compound, you can be relatively sure that if the corresponding word in Gaelic is composed of two words that there will be stress shift eg: glasshouse - <span style="color: #008000;">taigh-glaine</span> [təˈgLaNʲə] as opposed to a glass house - <span style="color: #008000;">taigh glaine</span> [tɤj gLaNʲə].
+In English, if you spell a word together (with no hyphen) or if there's stress shift in the English compound, you can be relatively sure that if the corresponding Gaelic word is composed of two words there will be stress shift, for example, glasshouse - <span style="color: #008000;">taigh-glaine</span> [təˈgLaNʲə] as opposed to a glass house - <span style="color: #008000;">taigh glaine</span> [tɤj gLaNʲə].
 If both words are nouns, the first one feminine and the second one behaves like an adjective after a feminine noun, you have a close compound because nouns only behave like adjectives in close compounds.  Unfortunately, this doesn't help if the first element is masculine: <span style="color: #008000;">cainnt-chluich</span> 'play on words' [ˈkaiNʲdʲxLɪç] but <span style="color: #008000;">uisge-beatha</span>.

@@ Loidhne 57: / Loidhne 57: @@
 ==True Compounds==
-These are words, or words and prefixes which have merged together in such a way that they are regarded as one single word.  Their main characteristics are:
+These are words, or prefixes-plus-words which have merged together in such a way that they are regarded as one single word.  Their main characteristics are:
 #Stress on the first syllable
@@ Loidhne 67: / Loidhne 67: @@
 ==Close Compounds==
-(This is where the people from Faclair na Pàrlamaid should tune in, as they didn't explain this bit at all).  These are still regarded as compounds by (native) speakers and are characterised by:
+This is where the people from Faclair na Pàrlamaid should tune in, as they didn't explain this bit at all.  These are still regarded as compounds by native speakers and fluent speakers and are characterised by:
 #Primary stress on the first syllable with secondary stress on the second element
-#Short vowels of the second element are reduced slightly without obscuring their quality (that is, an [u] may get shorted slightly for example but will not be reduced to a schwa [ə]
+#Short vowels of the second element are reduced slightly without obscuring their quality - for example, an [u] may get shorted slightly but will not be reduced to a schwa [ə]
-#Formerly long vowels of the second element are reduced to half-long or shorter vowels, for example <span style="color: #008000;">leth</span> [Lʲe] + <span style="color: #008000;">sùil</span> [suːl] » <span style="color: #008000;">leth-shùil</span> [ˈLʲeˌhuˑl]
+#Formerly long vowels of the second element are reduced to half-long or shorter vowels - for example, <span style="color: #008000;">leth</span> [Lʲe] + <span style="color: #008000;">sùil</span> [suːl] » <span style="color: #008000;">leth-shùil</span> [ˈLʲeˌhuˑl]
 #Compulsory lenition of the second element