An diofar eadar na mùthaidhean a rinneadh air "Answer Verbs or Thuirt vs Thubhairt and what's in it"

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(Created page with "Most people have come across these doublets, but few across any helpful explanantions. Most just regard them as variants of the same 'thing', some say the longer forms are the '...")
 
 
(18 mùthaidhean eadar-mheadhanach le 2 chleachdaiche eile nach eil 18 'gan sealltainn)
Loidhne 1: Loidhne 1:
Most people have come across these doublets, but few across any helpful explanantions. Most just regard them as variants of the same 'thing', some say the longer forms are the 'old way' of spelling them and there are but a few sources which refer to them as stressed and unstressed forms.  The latter is certainly true - but it actually goes beyond that. To begin with, here is a list of the most commonly seen variations:
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Most people have come across these doublets, but few have encountered any helpful explanations. Most explanations just present them as variants of the same 'thing'. Some say the longer forms are the 'old way' of spelling them, and there are a few sources which refer to them as stressed and unstressed forms.  The latter is certainly true - but it actually goes beyond that. To begin with, here's a list of the most commonly seen variations:
  
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{| style="width: 50%;" border="0" align="center"
an deigheagh an deagh would go?
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|-
an dubhairt an duirt said?
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| <span style="color: #008000;">an dubhairt thu?</span> || [əN du.əRʃdʲ u] || <span style="color: #008000;">an duirt thu?</span> || [əN duRʃdʲ u] || did you say?
bhà bha was
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|-
bhitheadh bhiodh would be
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| <span style="color: #008000;">bhitheadh tu</span> || [viːəɣ du] || <span style="color: #008000;">bhiodh tu</span> || [vjəɣ du] || you would be
bithidh bidh will be
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|-
chàidh/chathaidh chaidh went
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| <span style="color: #008000;">bithidh tu</span> || [bi.ɪ du] || <span style="color: #008000;">bidh tu</span> || [bi du] || you will be
thabhair thoir give
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|-
thà/thatha tha is
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| <span style="color: #008000;">thabhair dhomh</span> || [ho.ɪrʲ ɣõ] || <span style="color: #008000;">thoir dhomh</span> || [hɔrʲ ɣõ] || give me
thubhairt thuirt said
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|-
 +
|}
  
As so many things in Gaelic orthography which seem to be random, this isn't either.  What the spelling is trying to reflect here with some of the most commonly used verbs is a phenomenon of spoken Gaelic - the distinction between what we have chosen to call 'neutral' and 'stressed forms'.
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So many things in Gaelic orthography seem to be random, but really they aren't.  This isn't either, and these spelling differences surface with some of the most commonly used verbs. They're reflecting a phenomenon of spoken Gaelic which shows distinction between what I've chosen to call "neutral forms" and "stressed forms".
  
Neutral means that the verb is used without putting particular stress on it, for example because something else is stressed in the sentence or because it is just a simple statement or question you are making. Stressed means that for whatever reason, for example in answering a question or when stressing the verbal elelemt of the sentence, you are putting emphasis on the answer.
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"Neutral" means that the verb is used without putting particular stress on it, for example, because something else is stressed in the sentence or because you're making just a simple statement or question. "Stressed" means that for whatever reason, such as answering a question or stressing the verbal element of the sentence, you're putting emphasis on the answer.
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This distinction is very common in languages; however, they differ in how exactly they do it.  Gaelic does it two ways.  It lengthens the vowel of the stressed verbs and splits the single syllable into two. Huh?
  
This is very common in languages - they differ in how exactly they do it though.  Gaelic does two things - it lengthens the vowel of the stressed verbs and splits the single syllabe into two.  Huh?
 
 
Well, let's look at an example:
 
Well, let's look at an example:
  
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{| style="width: 45%;" border="0" align="center"
1. Thuirt mi ris dol ann
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|-
2. An dubhairt?
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| <span style="color: #008000;">Thuirt mi ris dol ann</span> || [huRʃdʲ mi rʲiʃ ə ɣɔL aũN] || I told him to go there.
3. Thubhairt! I told him to go there.
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|-
Did you?
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| <span style="color: #008000;">An dubhairt?</span> || [əN du.əRʃdʲ] || Did you?
I did!
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|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">Thubhairt!</span> || [hu.əRʃdʲ] || I did!
 +
|-
 +
|}
 +
 
 +
The first <span style="color: #008000;">thuirt</span> has quite a short vowel and just one syllable.  But the other two become somewhat "drawn out" and two syllables are heard.  It's similar to the difference in the English "Yes" and "Ye-es" (the kind of answer you get from some teenagers).  Although it's the same vowel, it's longer, and there's a kind of break in between.
  
The first thuirt has quite a short vowel and has just one syllable.  The other two on the other hand are "drawn out" somewhat and now there are two syllables.  It's as similar difference as in English "Yes" and "Ye-es!" in terms of syllables - although it's still the same vowel, it's longer and there is kind of a break in between.
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So what about other verbs, like <span style="color: #008000;">tha</span> and <span style="color: #008000;">bha</span>? In general, there's a tendency to lengthen the vowels slightly in stressed verbs and for the vowels to be short, or even disappear:
  
In general there is a tendency to lengthen the vowels slightly in stressed verbs, e.g. in:
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{| style="width: 40%;" border="0" align="center"
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">Mhol mi an latha dha</span> || [vɔL mi N La.ə ɣa] || I greeted him.
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">An do mhol?</span> || [əN də vɔL] || Did you?
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">Mhol!</span> || [vɔˑL] || Yes!
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">Bha mi ann</span> || [va mi ãũN] || I was there.
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">An robh?</span> || [ə Rɔ] || Were you?
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">Bha!</span> || [vaː] || Yes!
 +
|-
 +
|}
  
 
1. Mhol mi an latha dhà
 
2. An do mhol?
 
3. Mol! I greeted him.
 
Did you?
 
Yes!
 
  
In the last Mol! the vowel gets ever so slightly lengthened if you do a measurement of the vowels - by no means enough to make it sound like mòl, but just a bit.
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In <span style="color: #008000;">Mhol!</span> the vowel gets ever so slightly lengthened. This can be observed when measuremets are taken of vowel lengths. However, the slight lengthening of the vowel is by no means enough to make it sound like *<span style="color: #008000;">mòl</span>.
  
So it actually makes sense to have thubhairt AND thuirt when you are writing Gaelic - but however you write it, the important thing is to remember to pronounce them properly when speaking.
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So it actually makes sense to have <span style="color: #008000;">thubhairt</span> AND <span style="color: #008000;">thuirt</span> when you're writing Gaelic. But, however you write it, the important thing is to remember to pronounce them properly when speaking.
 
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{{BeaganGramair}}
 
{{BeaganGramair}}

Am mùthadh mu dheireadh on 07:21, 26 dhen Iuchar 2013

Most people have come across these doublets, but few have encountered any helpful explanations. Most explanations just present them as variants of the same 'thing'. Some say the longer forms are the 'old way' of spelling them, and there are a few sources which refer to them as stressed and unstressed forms. The latter is certainly true - but it actually goes beyond that. To begin with, here's a list of the most commonly seen variations:

an dubhairt thu? [əN du.əRʃdʲ u] an duirt thu? [əN duRʃdʲ u] did you say?
bhitheadh tu [viːəɣ du] bhiodh tu [vjəɣ du] you would be
bithidh tu [bi.ɪ du] bidh tu [bi du] you will be
thabhair dhomh [ho.ɪrʲ ɣõ] thoir dhomh [hɔrʲ ɣõ] give me

So many things in Gaelic orthography seem to be random, but really they aren't. This isn't either, and these spelling differences surface with some of the most commonly used verbs. They're reflecting a phenomenon of spoken Gaelic which shows distinction between what I've chosen to call "neutral forms" and "stressed forms".

"Neutral" means that the verb is used without putting particular stress on it, for example, because something else is stressed in the sentence or because you're making just a simple statement or question. "Stressed" means that for whatever reason, such as answering a question or stressing the verbal element of the sentence, you're putting emphasis on the answer.

This distinction is very common in languages; however, they differ in how exactly they do it. Gaelic does it two ways. It lengthens the vowel of the stressed verbs and splits the single syllable into two. Huh?

Well, let's look at an example:

Thuirt mi ris dol ann [huRʃdʲ mi rʲiʃ ə ɣɔL aũN] I told him to go there.
An dubhairt? [əN du.əRʃdʲ] Did you?
Thubhairt! [hu.əRʃdʲ] I did!

The first thuirt has quite a short vowel and just one syllable. But the other two become somewhat "drawn out" and two syllables are heard. It's similar to the difference in the English "Yes" and "Ye-es" (the kind of answer you get from some teenagers). Although it's the same vowel, it's longer, and there's a kind of break in between.

So what about other verbs, like tha and bha? In general, there's a tendency to lengthen the vowels slightly in stressed verbs and for the vowels to be short, or even disappear:

Mhol mi an latha dha [vɔL mi N La.ə ɣa] I greeted him.
An do mhol? [əN də vɔL] Did you?
Mhol! [vɔˑL] Yes!
Bha mi ann [va mi ãũN] I was there.
An robh? [ə Rɔ] Were you?
Bha! [vaː] Yes!


In Mhol! the vowel gets ever so slightly lengthened. This can be observed when measuremets are taken of vowel lengths. However, the slight lengthening of the vowel is by no means enough to make it sound like *mòl.

So it actually makes sense to have thubhairt AND thuirt when you're writing Gaelic. But, however you write it, the important thing is to remember to pronounce them properly when speaking.

Beagan gràmair
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